Magellan and Platinum: 10 years from now this is how the investing world has changed

A lot can change in 10 years. 10 years ago, the world was on its way out of The Great Recession, Donald Trump was just a wealth reality TV star, PetroChina was the largest company globally, and Facebook was just a website for teenagers. In 2029, the world will undoubtedly look very different from today, which is the topic of this discussion from Livewire Live 2019. It features two of Australia's most accomplished investors; Hamish Douglass, Chief Investment Officer at Magellan Asset Management Limited, and Andrew Clifford, Chief Investment Officer at Platinum Asset Management.

"We always overestimate the change that will occur in the next two years and underestimate the change that will occur in the next ten." - Bill Gates

Watch the full discussion or read my editorialised summary below to hear why we’re in “a new paradigm” of low interest rates, where to find a company on nine times earnings growing at 20% p.a., and in which mega-cap Magellan has recently become top 10 holder.

A new paradigm of low interest rates

Despite acknowledging the danger in such a statement, Douglass said that we face “a new paradigm” in this world of low interest rates. Warren Buffett calls interest rates the gravity of markets – as interest rates go down, stock prices go up, and vice versa. Douglass offers a hypothetical example of a company growing at four percent p.a., which might be worth around 17x free cashflow with interest rates at five percent. This same equity, with rates at three percent, would be worth as much as 33 times free cashflow.

“I do think we’re in a new paradigm, potentially, and that’s always a very dangerous thing to say.” - Douglass

Douglass went on later in the discussion to explain that expectations for long term future interest rates are likely too high. Magellan has two key consultants on the topic of interest rates; Kevin Warsh, a former Federal Reserve member who may serve as the next President of the Fed, and none other than Janet Yellen herself, the previous President of the Fed. He says their advice played a role in him adjusting his views on rates. He now sees three percent as a base case for long term rates, but says that scenarios between zero and two percent shouldn't be ruled out.

Clifford, however, disagreed. He believes central banks are signalling that monetary policy has run its course. With governments in Asia, Europe, and America poised to step up with fiscal stimulus, this simultaneous spending could create significant demand for resources and light a fire under inflation. He sees the 10-year US Treasury back to three to four percent over the next five years.

What ever happened to 'The Asian Century'?

A decade ago, the prevailing wisdom said that the US' era of dominance was over, and China was the place to invest. But as can be seen in the chart above, US markets have significantly outperformed Chinese markets since then. So what happened?

Clifford believes that the thesis still remains in tact, the issue was one of starting valuations. The growth of the Chinese consumer and the ascent of China as a world power is real, but how much were you paying for it 10 years ago? Too much, clearly. The good news for investors, is that valuations are much more attractive today.

"At the beginning of the period, Chinese stocks were insanely expensive. Insanely. Today, they're trading on a fraction of what we would find for similar growth rates in the US." - Clifford

Douglass, however, has a very different take on what's caused the discrepancy. It comes down to an issue he calls "capitalism without capital".

“The businesses that are winning are businesses that are very capital light. A lot of these Asian companies, and a lot of these companies on very low price-earnings multiples are companies that are very capital intensive.” - Douglass

In particular, he singles out banks, of which he says Magellan owns none in their portfolios. He believes capital intensive businesses will continue to struggle, regardless of their undemanding price-earnings ratios.

"We cannot find a bank anywhere on the planet that we want to invest in." - Douglass

One thing that they both agree on though, is that the next 20 years will belong to the Chinese. With low starting valuations, an increasing number of capital-light businesses, and favourable demographics, both 'value' and 'growth' investors should have no problems seeing the appeal.

“At that value end of the market, in some fantastic businesses, high return on capital businesses, there are some extraordinary opportunities to buy. They’re growth businesses irrespective of the global environment.”- Clifford

So what do they like?

Andrew Clifford

Ping-An Insurance - A leading life insurance business in China, Ping An faces limited competition. The company has grown at 20% p.a. for 20 years, and its growth has shown no signs of slowing down recently. Despite being capital intensive, the returns it receives on that capital are in the mid-20s. Clifford says that if this were a US stock, it'd be on 30 times earnings - but it trades on just nine times.

Ali Baba - "The Amazon of China", but Clifford says it's far more than that. It has positions in payments, video streaming, food delivery, and even ride sharing. Unlike Amazon, it makes money, and trades on just 25 times earnings.

Tencent - This might be called "the Facebook of China", but he says it's more than Facebook could ever hope to be. In fact, he says Facebook are copying it continuously. It also owns the company's leading video game producer. This one is also growing >20% p.a., and can be picked up for around 30 times earnings.

Watch the full video below for more detail on all these points, plus as a bonus, Andrew and Hamish each share their view on Australia's role in the coming decade.